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Apologies

Authoured by: Suchitra
Originally published here.

I have a teacher at college who gets high on apologies. Trust me, she does. Every day, she needs to start off her class picking on someone ascribing some fault to them, and she demands an apology from them. Depending on the nature of the fault, the apology would either be oral or written. (If you have not heard of the concept of apology letters, it's like this. People demand an apology for your fault and you write an apology letter in return. Kind of like answering a letter saying "I love you. Love me in return" with a reply that says "OK, but only because you ask")

A funny thing happened yesterday. She winds up her lecture a few minutes before the bell, and she does not like us doing anything else in those few minutes other than reading the lecture notes. Yesterday, she caught me string up into space as I sat thinking about what had just been taught. The exchange between us:

Her: Susithra what are you doing?
Me: Ma'm, I was thinking.
Her: Thinking-a? Why are you not reading your notes?
Me: *blank*
Her: You are doing everything except what I tell you to. I have warned you several times already.
Me: OK ma'm, I'm sorry. I won't think in your class again.
Her: That's better. Sit down.

While trying to work out how her mind works is not exactly on the top of my priorities, I admit I do it if I am too bored..why would a person find fault unnecessarily and be satiated with apologies? What is the pleasure in hearing those words: 'I'm sorry'? Maybe it's like this. Maybe she perceives that we apologize to her, so she is superior to us, because we are wrong and she is right, and that makes her feel in control and therefore she gets a kick out of the whole thing.

Ideally, why do you say 'you are sorry'? Because you are. Because you think back and realise that whatever you are apologizing for is just not the best thing you could have done under the circumstances. So every apology is a personal affair. It is something you tell yourself, and if you ever do it in the presence of another person, you do it because you think that they deserve to hear that confession, that it is relevant to them, that the admission can bear their presence, that you think they need to hear it. Even if you kill a man, my take is that nobody can demand an apology from you unless you are willing to give it of your own will.

So forced apologies? Oxymoron of the first order, right? 'Sorry' must be the most misused word that there is. But hey, I can testify to this: it is the most useful word of them all. It helps you get out of the most sticky situations...people love hearing that you are sorry!

posted by The N Series

at 3:03 AM Permalink

Re:9.1 Apologies

Authored by: Aditya Rajaraman
Originally published here

I am sure we have had this conversation sometime back and I have even written a post on this, which I am sure you remember. However, I have enclosed the same here. The point is I do not believe in apologies, you made a choice, live with it. To regret it is to say that you were not right in a choice. A choice is never objective and can never be repeated, for the circumstances are not the same. Therefore, no regrets (apologies), they dont work.

The main question is does on really control what they are doing? The answer to that, according to me is yes, they do. Everything one does is a choice. Taking into consideration all other possible avenues possible, the result of each one and weighing them also known as cost – benefit analysis in management parlance, one takes the decision. Post this one implements the decision. This means following a particular path is a result of a conscious decision.
Since one has control over every event, not the result, one had the choice not to do it, but chose to do so; does one need to be sorry the result was different compared to the one he/she expected when he/she chose to walk down that path?
This is where I am not able to conclude. There are two arguments I have and both seem to be equally sane. I will try to elucidate them both. Maybe someone out there can provide assistance.
Each decision one takes can be of two types - one that affects others and one that affects only the decision maker. This is the main assumption I am running with.
In the former case, where the decision I take affects others, I guess I have a responsibility to make sure the things I do, do not affect the other person in a detrimental manner, and even though this mainly contradicts the fact one man’s gain is another man’s loss. To take this further, I guess, only the people that matter to me should not to have a negative return from my actions. Does this mean I can do things I like when the other person is a complete stranger? Well, I am not sure. This is where the society steps in to say there is a limit to what I can do when it affects someone in a negative manner. What this means is, I can inflict pain to an unknown stranger to a certain extent, I can earn his money off him, which is really saying I can rob him of his money without me realizing I have done that, I can cause him emotional stress hopefully unknowingly, but I cannot do all this knowingly.
Does this mean I can do this if I do not care? If I give two hoots about what happens to others, can I carry on indulging myself and not bothering about what happens to others? Can I be selfish regarding my happiness and not give a damn about what it does to others?
When it comes to things that affects no one else, is there such a thing? Is not the “Butterfly Effect” that says, a butterfly flapping its wings at the equator can set off a chain of events that can lead to a tsunami in Japan? Is it not true no man is an island and he/she cannot exist in a vacuum, in a cocoon, alone and without a connection in the world? Is he/she not a social animal?
I have used two main influences in this thought. One is objectivism of Ayn Rand, the thought “no act in this world is selfless”; one that says, “There is a selfish reason behind everything one does”. The other line of thought is the one proposed by John Nash of the “A Beautiful Mind”, “The best result will happen for a group of people when the people think and do the things that are best for themselves and the group as a whole”.
I really seemed to have rambled on about everything but the topic. The question I am asking is “If everything I do is the result of a conscious decision, a choice, can I ever be sorry? By being sorry, am I not belittling myself? Is not a way of saying I was stupid when I made the choice? Is not saying I am sorry for taking the path I chose and I regret what I did? Is regretting something the worst thing to do?
If I never regret what I have done, if I am at peace with what I have done and what it has led to, no matter what the outcome, do I have to be sorry?
Does not being sorry, make me a worse man than I am? These questions were some I asked to my own self and the answers I got were amazing. I have not felt sorry when the effect was on some one I did not care for. When it was in some one I cared about, I was not sorry for the effect on the person, I was sorry because the person telling me I had let them down made me feel bad. When I felt bad because of something I did, I felt sorry. This sorry was not for the target that felt bad, but to me. In the end, I was sorry I let some one mean so much that hurting them hurt me.

posted by The N Series

at 2:26 AM Permalink

Re: 9.2 Apologies

Authored by: Suchitra R

Originally published here

  • A choice is always objective, because at any given point of time the circumstances are objective. You do not project from the past nor do you project to the future.
  • Regretting an action is not the same as regretting the outcome. Lets say I want to go bungee jumping. I do it, without knowing that I have a weak heart. I get a heart attack, severe complications. Now I may not regret that I bungee jumped, but I may regret that I brought about a heart attack unwittingly. I may regret that I had to pay the doctor so much that he would put his son through college. I may regret the angst that I may be causing my family.
  • In the end, I was sorry I let some one mean so much that hurting them hurt me.You are not sorry for hurting them, you are sorry for the hurt you unwittingly cause yourself. Sorry, not for actions, but for outcomes. Regret, not for the hurting words or deeds, but the hurt you got. Regret just the same!
  • Regret is not the strictly the same as an apology. You may apologize to show your regret, but not all apologies are earmarks of regret. 'Sorry' is when you say 'I wish it had not happened' Regret is when you wish you had not made something happen. "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" could either be "I am responsible for the hurt I caused to you and I wish to go back on it, I wish I had not done it." Or it could be "I know your feelings are hurt. Not that I can do anything about it because I meant whatever I said and will not go back on it for anything, but still, I care for you and it pains me to know that you are feeling bad because of the words I said." (No wonder so much of confusion arise due to miscommunication :P)
  • In a fit of anger you hit a child. The next moment you realize that that was not the best way to take out your frustration. No regrets, hitting was a choice however unconscious or momentary it was, so does it mean I should not/will not regret hitting the child? As I see it, having no regrets does NOT mean saying that whatever I did was a choice and no matter what I did, my choices were MY choices and therefore not liable to any aspersions from myself. It means having the maturity to tell myself that I did do something stupid. (and I know it was stupid. The fact that the action was mine does not make it any less stupid, but it is mine after all.) That given the circumstances and the person who was 'me' then this was the outcome. That it just was not the best way out. But not keep harping on 'Why did I do it?' but to live with it, not like living with an outcast, but like living with a friend. To accept my stupidity and my screw ups as a part of myself. ( For what can define Achilles better than his heel?) That, is living without regrets.
  • When I say 'I am sorry', I am telling myself that I am sorry for what happened, in your presence. An apology is not the submission of of your ego at the feet of the person who hears the apology, it is like Krishna's Vishwaroopam of your ego. You are fully at home with your actions, you have thought it through, and you have realised that your action was not the best thing that you could have done under the circumstances. You are OK with it, you are stating it to yourself: "It was MY action, and it was a goof up. I am sorry that it happened." Total responsibility, total freedom, total ego. And because you think it concerns me I get to hear that. The people we choose to have with us when we make that apology says a lot about us and the person. Every apology (I am talking ideally as usual J) is a great honour to the people who get to hear it, because they are included in a process which is extremely personal to the person who gives the apology. Apologies may even be a burden on to the person who is on the receiving end; I am saying 'I am sorry' in your presence, when you might not even want to hear it. (Ideally, you would not expect apologies, right.)You might not even be interested in my conflicts with myself, yet you listen just because you know your listening to it means something to me. One never feels sorry for feeling sorry! Apologies traditionally put you in a vulnerable spot and the very premise you apologize is under the trust that your vulnerability will not be taken advantage of. That trust is the only basis on which people can (stronger word: should) ever interact. An apology properly given and graciously received must be one of the beautiful things in the world. (That paragraph reads like 'The quality of mercy' :D)
  • But then 'sorry' is the most misused word ever, even beats 'I love you'. The popular perception doing rounds is that when I am sorry, I am apologizing to you, and I am saying that I am wrong, and therefore, you are right. And since right is always better than wrong, I am better than you. Ego boost, in your words. And what do I do if I have reason to believe you are not happy with me and I want you to be happy with me? Give you an ego boost. Say 'I'm sorry' whether I mean it or not. You feel better immediately. Things are fine. Back to normal. So you use it everywhere, with everybody, no matter whether you mean it or not. It irons out wrinkles in any relationships. Makes things smooth for you. Just a word, then, just a word. One you have programmed yourself to hear and feel pleased for; use and feel sorry for. Sickening, but the world's still spinning!

posted by The N Series

at 1:35 AM Permalink

TLT 9.1 Sincerely sorry

This post can also be found at Sincerely Sorry - Aditya

I have post where I expounded my theory that one is not to feel sorry, for that means regretting a choice one has made. When there is a point in life, where one does regret the choices that one has made, is it better to apologize to the person concerned?

I asked this question to Suchitra over an SMS and I will paraphrase, without her consent of course.
"Which is better? To apologize for a mistake very old, or to let it go, for it was so so long ago?"

The reply received was, "It depends. I guess on what complications digging up the past can bring against what good an apology can do, repair a relationship may be. Sometimes, I think that an apology is transfer of responsibility, but at least you have the satisfaction of being honest with yourself."

I kind of like the last lines. The apology is tranfer of responsibility, a transfer of guilt. When I apologize, I am releived of the pain that caused me to want to apologize. It is now the prerogative of the other person to forgive me or not. At least my conscience is clean.

However, I am not sure if this is being honest. It seems to be more of cowardice than anything else for the reason that by apologizing I am saying in not so many words that I do not want to go on regretting what I did. Therefore, I am apologizing for the effect my choice, if it were a choice has on you. Now forgive me, or not, it does not matter for the moment I have let you know that I am sorry, my soul has been freed from the clutches of guilt.

We are honest when we accept that the choice was wrong and that someone was hurt by it. Not when we go an transfer the responsibility in the mess to the person who was already wronged. The best thing we can do is regret it, to ourselves, keep it to ourselves and try to ensure that the regret is not repeated. To accept that one was wrong is honest. To rid of it because it caused pain is more like cowardice, the inability be true to yourself and the choices one has made.

I am sorry,
That I was foolish
In my choices
But, it is my secret
For my sin in life
Is my sin alone,
I will be brave,
I will be strong,
For my weight to carry
I will not spread
Among people
People I already wronged

posted by The N Series

at 7:29 AM Permalink

TLT 9.1: Re: Sincerely Sorry - Suchitra

This can be found in the comment to the "Sincerely Sorry" post

Sorry, I am
That I have let down, me
Sorry, with you
So that to you, I be true
Sorry, an admission
The worst of me, shared
Sorry, the truth
So that nothing’s left unbared

Sorry, my guilt
My gift, to thee
Sorry, I say
For I want relief
Sorry, an excuse
A quick way out
For truths are barren
And hurt cannot patch hurt

Sorry, then, a compromise
Between truth and hypocrisy
I stay true to me, and lie to thee
And is that true to me?
Or I bare all,
An ode to truth
Praying for strength
To bear the burden of two

posted by The N Series

at 7:35 AM Permalink

TLT: 9.2 Apologies Corollary - Suchitra

All apologies are made to oneself; for oneself.

I am going to reason this using the Axiom of Universal Selfishness (AUS) which states that all human thoughts and actions have a selfish motive. 

An action can have one out of two outcomes; a favourable outcome (what I want) or one among several unfavourable outcomes, all of which are the same as far as I am concerned because they are not in my favour. When the unfavourable happens, AUS tries to make me act in such a way as to minimize the disappointment of not getting the favoured outcome. An apology is one way of AUS’s action.

A hypothetical situation

Mann and Wyf are a married couple. Mann goes out of town on business, and cheats on Wyf. It is a fling, a one-night-stand, but Mann feels guilty about it. He is not sure whether to tell anything about it to Wyf. He decides that telling Wyf would be the better course of action, because he does not want to feel bad about hiding stuff from her. Moreover, if Wyf were to find out on her own, she would not be pleased, and it is better she hears it from him straight. Mann goes to Wyf (who, we should imagine, is in a very happy frame of mind till now) and confesses penitently. He is satisfied; he has acted according to his conscience. Wyf is now confused what she should think; feel angry that her husband has cheated on her, or feel happy that he is so repentant and trusts her enough to make a full confession? She is even more confused as to what she should do; forgive him for a hurt he had denied her from fully experiencing, because of a pre-emptive apology? Mann, who was confused earlier, feels better now. Wyf, who felt good because of her ignorance, feels worse now.

Regret and apology

The distinction between regret and apology is: a regret involves only oneself, whereas an apology necessarily involves another individual or individuals. I could also define an apology as a verbalized expression of regret. The verbalization makes all the difference, because it is assumed that when there is a comment ‘spoken’ out, it is necessarily done to reach a listening ear. Let me make it very clear that all apologies, the regret expressed, is made to oneself, but the ‘speaking out’ part involves others. Mann’s feelings regarding his misdeed were regrets; his statement to Wyf was an apology.

Why some apologies can be traumatic

Regret is AUS at the fundamental level. It is want, disguised. ‘If I had done xyz, I would have got abc’. Doing or not doing xyz is not the issue here. The whole point is getting abc. If I regret not doing xyz, I regret it because I did not get abc. Had I got abc without doing xyz, I would not be regretting not doing xyz! Simply stated, we regret outcomes, not steps leading up to the outcome. Mann does not regret sleeping with the other woman, the actual act, but he does regret his wife finding out, having a bad opinion of him, the souring effect it would have on his life.

Now an off the cuff statement; loads of times, abc is simply…peace of mind. When I apologize to someone I am holding them responsible for the outcome; my current frame of mind. I am asking them to put it right for me. It is like saying, ‘I’m feeling bad; you tell me it’s OK and I’ll feel better’. In a way, Mann was blackmailing Wyf to tell him it was OK…when it may not be OK at all for her! She had even been denied her legitimate right to grieve for a misdeed against her.

AUS and why I apologize

When I feel I have done someone an injustice, I can hold it back, or express it and ask say I’m sorry.

Holding it back has an understandable selfish motive; you do not want the others to think ill of you.

But when I own up to it of my own accord, I can be sure of one thing; if the issue ever crops up again, I would not be accused of lying/hiding the truth. In this way, apology gives me an insurance for the future. Whatever happens to Wyf’s peace of mind at the moment, it would be disturbed even more if she were to hear of it from someone else in the future. The other selfish motive behind apologies is, of course, the peace of mind one gets when one owns up the truth. The shift of responsibility. The third reason is, some people expect apologies. They have no trauma associated with apologies; all that matters to them is someone telling them that he was wrong and they were right. Apologizing to such people, the act, mere words without any feelings of regret, is a way to maintain cordial relations, a way to survive. Selfish again.

By AUS, given all these selfish gains of apologizing, one will certainly not defer apologizing if they really want to. Certainly not because they consider it would be traumatic for the other person. Mann might understand Wyf’s troubled mind, but he would choose to stick to his decision of apologizing, because it makes him feel better. Between my peace of mind, and yours, I would choose AUS!

In summation:

Like I had said, it becomes a compromise between truth and hypocrisy. Hypocrisy of the kind: I am a hypocrite, but I just cannot stand your hypocrisy! What we do, of course, is decided by AUS. I completely agree with the tone and spirit of your post, but I still believe that AUS prevails.

posted by The N Series

at 7:38 AM Permalink

TLT 9.2: Re: Apologies Corollary - Aditya

At no point am I questioning the existence of universal selfishness. In fact, I can totally see why apologizing is the most selfish thing one can do after having committed, what in his own eyes is a wrongful act. 

I would like to state that a person can either apologize for the act or for the end result. In the man sleeping with a woman other than his wife instance, it could be that he has always believed that sleeping with a woman other than the one he is married to is morally wrong, or he knows that his wife believes that in the immorality of the act. In this case, the act and the result are the same. If the man’s morality did not forbid him from being polygamous, then his morality would be piqued only by knowledge of the fact that in the event that his wife finds out about the act, she is hurt and he does not want her to be hurt. (To note that she is going to get hurt anyway is something to be pursued later).

His act of apologizing is nothing but telling his wife that her happiness means as much to him as his own and he regrets the fact that he performed an act, that has the potential to cause her ill, thereby causing him ill.

However, the point to note in the case of an apology is there are two people involved, the apologizer, ER, and apologize, E.

In any apology, there are two states that E is present in. E is aware of the act and is directly affected by the act. This would be the situation where someone is stamped on, someone has water spilt on them, someone has been told a harsh word to, where only the ER and E are involved in the act. In such a case, E having awareness of the incident can be appeased by the apology. What happens in this case is something I believe must be looked into.

  • ER wrongs E.

  • ER realizes that they have wronged E.

  • ER apologizes for the wrong.

  • E is hurt by the event, by the wrong committed against them.

  • By apologizing, ER is asking E to remove any importance that E might have placed on the event.


    • The question that arises is what if E did not place any importance on the event. What if E noticed the event and did not mind? Then to what purpose other than AUS does the apology work? (The question is rhetoric)

    The other instance is of E not being aware of the incident. This is where ignorance is bliss. As long as E does not know, then E is not hurt. This means that ER must take efforts to let E not know once the event has occurred to minimize the hurt. For if E get to know of the event, then there is hurt no matter what. Even if ER apologizes, E is hurt.

    The question that is paramount is that if E’s feelings are so important to ER, then why did ER go and commit the act in the first place? Is it not hypocritical that I do something that is going to harm me (in a circuitous route) and then dodge the bullet by passing the blame on to the someone whom I do not want to hurt, but will hurt by telling them about the incident, causing them pain by removing the ignorance, and then cause myself pain as they are in pain.

    Sounds really stupid.


    Best alternative, do something because you want to. Hold no one important enough that their pain is your pain. Do anything that you want to.

    If you do hold someone special, do nothing that can hurt them.

    Sounds simpler.

    posted by The N Series

    at 7:41 AM Permalink